Welcome back to the Oxendine Law podcast. Look, if you're considering divorce, chances are you have a lot of questions. So, today we're going to be covering the top questions that we get asked most repeatedly when somebody comes in for a consultation and is ready to start the divorce process. Such as, let me just give you some teasers here. How much is this going to cost? Uh who gets the house? What about the kids? Am I going to lose everything? Today we're going to cover all of that and more. So, let's kind of start with questions. I'm going to blend these together cuz they're kind of similarly situated, Christine. Let's call this questions 1 through 3. And that is, how long is it going to take? How much is it going to cost? And do I need an attorney? Can we Can we fairly lump those in 1 through 3 into one group? >> Sure. Yes. Well, the the third one is absolutely yes. Um and that is not because me advocating for just Oxendine Law, like hire us. That is, you know, you don't make major decisions without some kind of assistance. When you bought your house, did you just go driving around and start knocking on doors and say, "Y'all willing to sell?" No, you have a realtor, right? If you feel ill, you don't just, you know, go to a pharmacy and say, and like pick up things from the shelf and start buying them and tasting them and trying them, right? You talk to a doctor. You talk to the expert. Why, with the largest decision in your life, would you decide, "I don't need an expert for this one?" It's like doing surgery on yourself. This is like just buying a home that you didn't have any inspection on or a realtor to help you determine what school district you're in. I mean, you have no problem obtaining experts for anything else. So, why do people question it when it comes to one of the largest decisions in your entire life? >> Wow, that was really good. >> Thanks for it. >> the way you did that. >> >> I I've thought about that before. I don't know if I've quite put it that way, but I completely agree with everything you said. I would add that keep in mind it's hard to advocate for yourself on emotional issues. >> Sure, yeah. >> And depending on how your case goes, even if you're having settlement discussions, you're kind of negotiating somewhat blind because you are negotiating from a source of emotions. This is your life, your kids, your money, your assets. And so can you really make good objective business decisions without the help of an expert and expert advice? People who have been doing this, representing clients for decades? That's tough. >> Right. >> Now, take that a step further. Let's say you're in court. You You can't settle your case. You're in court, you're standing in front of a judge or even a jury cuz we can have jury trials in Georgia. And you're expected to know what a judge wants to hear, what a jury wants to hear, have all the documents that are required for court, prepared the proper way, exhibits tendered and submitted the way they they need to be tendered. And then on top of that, be able to effectively and not overly emotionally state your case? >> Right. >> Tough. So, yes, if you can afford it, you should and could and shall and need to hire an attorney even if that means borrowing money from friends or family members. There may be a way to get some of that back and get them repaid by the end of the case. You need to do whatever you can to get an attorney advocating for you on your side. So, that's the answer to that. Then we get Christine, how long's it going to take and how much is it going to cost? >> Right. Two of the biggest variables. The first thing that we're going to say is like it depends. And that is the truth. There are so many factors that go into it. The I could say primary factor that goes into it is the cooperativeness of yourself and your spouse. Whether you are like this is the hill I'll die on or whether your spouse is like this is the hill I'll die on. If there's something that you just not budgeable about, if they are chasing something that doesn't exist, if it's the client who's like we have to have more money than this. There has to be more. Or just he's shady. I know he's hiding something. Okay, what do you think he's hiding? Something. He's he's a shady guy. He's hiding something. There's no way he's just being honest. He's never been honest. He never knows about anything our whole marriage. There's no way he's being honest about this. Things like that, you know, will drag it out. But also who your spouse hires as their attorney will be a contributing factor. Whether they are a true family law expert, whether they got somebody who does primarily criminal but's doing them a favor. How many times have we seen the guy that does bankruptcy law but we go to church together so he'll try it out for a while. So those are contributing factors. And then just honestly like the complexity of the facts in your case obviously is going to be a contributing factor. >> Yeah, I mean obviously if you have complex issues in your case, we've got high assets or complex assets, we've got a marital business at stake, we have assets that have a premarital component and a marital component, or it's a case where you legitimately have a custody dispute. Both parties want custody. Then those cases are going to take longer, they're going to cost more money. The best way I think I could summarize this if I was doing it quickly is to say at the end of the day the case will be quick and it'll be cheaper if you and your spouse are on the same page and can work together towards reaching an amicable agreement. If you can't, if you can't agree on whether the sky is blue or red, you can't agree on what the assets are and what they're worth, and y'all can't compromise on custody and parenting time, it's going to take longer and it's going to cost more money. >> Sure. And then we're talking about first consultations here. How many times have you had a client sit across from you and say, Jared, get ready. He'll never agree to anything. That's just who he is. That's how he is. He's not going to agree to anything. We could offer him 100% of the estate, I walk away, and I pay him money that I borrowed, and he's still not going to settle cuz that's who he is. And what happens? We settle. Usually those are taking about 2 months and they're settled. Why? Cuz that person's getting good advice, too. So do not If you're in your initial consultation and Jared and I are talking to you about, all right, here's what we're going to do. We're going to, you know, sit down with you. We're going to determine what we think the marital estate is. Step one is we're probably going to go ahead and schedule a mediation. Let's get to the table, see how far apart we are. Let's see Oh, that's not Don't do that. Don't bother. Don't bother, he'll never settle. Trust us. I'd say over 85% of our cases end in some form of settlement. >> Christine's on point today, y'all. I'm still hearkening back. I'm just It's It's got this mental picture in my mind when we were talking about whether or not you should hire an attorney. I've got this mental picture in my mind based on what you said, Christine, of this guy. I don't know why it's a guy and not a girl. He's in the medicine aisle >> >> He's in the medicine aisle at the pharmacy just opening up all this random medicine, tasting it to see what works. >> Take this one. Take this one. Take this one. >> That was a great illustration. I don't think I'll ever forget that. It's really good. All right. So, that brings us to questions 4 through 6. And these are grouped together because they are financial-driven, right? Um, who gets the house? What happens to retirement? And will I have to pay alimony? Common questions we get. >> Yes, absolutely. I'd say that's sort sort of the primary analysis when it comes to people's finances. Common in every case are those things that somebody owns a house or rents a house. Um, there's money somewhere someway, and everybody hears the word divorce, they think alimony. Am I owed it or do I have to pay it? >> Right. And so, you know, let's kind of flesh that out a little bit. We could spend probably an hour on these topics, so we're not going to do that. But just to give you the question for your initial console. But keep in mind on the house, right? People get emotionally tied to homes, and this is goes back again to why you need an attorney, right? If you're representing yourself, you're thinking, this is my home. >> Yeah. >> I love my home. I want to stay in my home, and you don't care what the financial consequences are. >> Or you're not contemplating them. You're not contemplating them. >> about what it means to actually keep the house. Keep in mind, this house has equity most likely, and your spouse is entitled to a portion of that equity. So, if you're going to keep the house, then you got to buy your spouse out. If I'm your spouse, you're mostly tied to the house, you're willing to just write me a check for my portion of the house, and I get to walk away with cash, and your money's stuck in the house? >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. >> Sign me up all day long, right? Keep in mind, you also got to get your spouse's name off the debt if they're on the mortgage. What does that mean? You got to refinance. Where we at with interest rates in this country right now? I, right? So, now you're bending your over backwards to have a lot of your settlement in your divorce tied up in a house, your spouse gets check, they're skipping and jumping down the hallway, and your payment's more because you had to refinance. So, keep those things in mind when you're trying to decide who gets the house. The quick answer to that question is who gets the house? If you don't want to keep it, or your spouse don't want to keep it, or neither one of you can keep it, then it's going to be sold. That's what happens to the house. So, if nobody's keeping it and buying the other person out, then it would be sold, and then those proceeds would be divided. Um as far as retirement's concerned, retirement that's accumulated during the marriage is marital. So, it's subject to being divided. Doesn't matter if it's in your name or your spouse's name. Sometimes that is a huge sticking point. We have people in our office for a consultation that says, "Huh? What?" >> He's never saved a dollar. I've been saving for 12 years. I put all my extra money into my 401k. He spends 100% of his. He's nothing to show for it, by the way. He just spends, spends, spends. So, you're telling me I owe him half of my 401k? Yes, I'm telling you. You owe him half of your 401k. >> This is my retirement. They're not entitled to any of it. No, both parties have a claim to any marital money that are accumulated during the marriage, and that includes retirement. Now, the good news is, you may be the spouse that doesn't have any retirement in your name, or maybe you just have never had access to the finances. Well, now you will. You will have some retirement, you'll have access to the finances. So, just know that retirement, regardless of whose name it's in, is on the table, and that includes pension benefits. Keep that in mind, that's always a sticking point in some of our cases, you know, with these pension benefits that pay out a monthly amount. Again, we've done other podcasts on how those are valued, but just keep in mind, those are valued the value of that's not necessarily just the monthly benefit. Um that can be converted to a present day lump sum cash value, right? If this person's receiving $2,500 per month the rest of their life, what is that worth today? And that's what we do. And let's say that's worth $900,000. Well, if that person's keeping their pension, then they owe you another asset that arguably is at least equal to $900,000. So, you've got to make sure that all of that is assessed accordingly, but again, quick answer, it's marital, it's subject to division. And then alimony, Christine, you know, do I have to pay alimony? >> Right. >> Get that question a lot. >> So, I always give these two examples because these are two real life cases that I've personally had, um and I give them to most clients when they're really trying to struggle with the concept of alimony and who has to pay and how. Um I once had a client who made $800,000 a year. That was his salary, $800,000 a year. His wife never worked. She made $0 per year for the entirety of their well over 20-year marriage. He did not have to pay alimony. He makes $800,000, she makes none. Didn't have to pay alimony. Why? Because their marital estate exceeded far over $4 million. So, when we divided it out, it's really hard for her to argue I have to have his monthly support to survive. Ma'am, you're walking away with $2.6 million in liquid assets. It's real hard to say I just can't survive. I won't be able to pay my bills, right? So, in that case, despite the huge disparity in income and his just crazy large salary, no alimony. I also had a case where a gentleman made $65,000 a year. That was it. It was undisputed these people could not support two separate households on his $65,000 a year. Wife also a stay-at-home mom who made no income. Also over a 20-year marriage and despite my best argument that he really didn't have the money, the judge awarded alimony. Yes, it was a small amount, but it didn't matter. The point is that's the marital money that's there and it has to be shared. So, those are just two very extreme examples that I've seen in real life to show you that it depends. Like I said before, the answer is it depends. So, you're going to look at the payor's ability to pay and the recipient's need. And Jared and I are responsible for arguing to the court that both exist. The payor has the ability to pay and the recipient has a need, not a want, but a need to have financial support. That's how alimony is determined. >> Yeah, and it really does depend and that's where it helps, honestly guys, to have an experienced attorney in your corner that knows how to make creative arguments and knows how to maybe turn situations where it is an alimony case to where it's not an alimony case or situations where it's not an alimony case to be an alimony case. And I could tell you stories, too. I'll just give you a couple examples just kind of keep this conversation going. I've had cases where this state wasn't millions of dollars and the other party wasn't going to get millions of dollars and my client made a lot of money and it otherwise would have been an alimony case, but instead of paying a monthly amount over a long period of time, we paid a lump sum amount. So, he took a he took a portion of his share of the proceeds from sell the house. He said, "You know what? I don't want to have this obligation over my back for the next several years. I'm just going to pay her up front." And guess what what that why that was good for him. It was good for both of them, really. Good for her cuz she didn't have to wait on her money. >> Mhm. >> So, she got a lump sum paid up front. Good for him because he paid a lot less money than what he would have paid over time. You get a huge discount for paying up front, or at least you should. So, if you're paying, let me just give you an example, $2,500, and these are just rough examples, $2,500 per month, that's 30,000 per year. And if you pay that for 5 years, that is $150,000, right? So, you pay $150,000 over 5-year period, but what if you could pay $75,000 up front and not have the obligation? You've just saved yourself $75,000. >> Right. And for the recipient, you would have had to wait 5 years to get that money, and hope that he pays it. Hope he pays it on time. Hope he doesn't die. I mean, not to be morbid, but, you know, hope something He doesn't become unemployable. Alimony's modifiable. So, you're guaranteed without a doubt that money up front, and you can use it all right now. >> There are other tricks of the trade, but just keep in mind, will you pay alimony, or will I receive alimony? It really depends. And you got to know how to make those creative arguments. All right, that brings us to the last grouping of questions, Kristen. We're going to lump these in. Questions 7 through 10 are going to be lumped in. And these are as follows. What happens with custody? Can my spouse take the kids? Should I move out, which is a big one. That's always a big one. And what should I do right now? So, these are Each one of these topics, again, y'all, we could talk about hours really could be. But, we're going to do our best to dissect these and give you some discussion and some examples. I'll start with should I move out? Cuz that's a big one. If you don't have kids, >> What's your answer? It depends. >> >> It depends. It depends. And it really depends whether you have kids or not have kids, but let's start with the situation where you don't have kids. You don't have kids. If you can afford to move out, then you can move out, right? >> have somebody you can stay with. >> That's right. There's no harm. You're not You're not giving up your claim to the equity in the house by moving out. You're not putting yourself in a less powerful position. You're just basically moving out to get peace of mind, sanity, and independent. And that's okay. So, I would say, "No kids, if you can afford to move out, you absolutely can move out. Nothing says you have to stay." >> do want to say, if you are the person who has always historically paid the mortgage, you can't just move out and be like, "Sorry, you want to stay, that's your house." Um we got to jump through some legal hoops till we get that done. So, when we're talking about payment, keep your payments the same. Whoever's done whatever, nobody can change it. Now, if you've always only paid half, and your spouse just quits paying their half, let us know. So, payment is different than possession, just know that. Um but as far as just like occupying the house, sleeping there, moving out, yeah, if you can afford your own place without changing what you've historically contributed to the marital residence, or if you got a buddy you can crash with, or if your parents are in town, if you've got a sibling that you can stay with, and you just want to not be in that environment, go. Just go. Like, get yourself that immediate peace of mind, absolutely go. You are not abandoning your interest. I heard the word I hear the word abandonment all the time. Like, "Well, my spouse told me I'd be abandonment if I move out." No, as long as you're paying what you've been paying, and you know, you aren't just, you know, taking everything with you, like just emptying the house. You don't While she's at work, show up with a U-Haul and put all the contents in it and disappear with them. Um but if you're just staying somewhere else, 100% get out if you can. >> Now, what if you have kids? Makes it a little more complicated. >> Same story, but don't leave without kids. >> That's it. That's the quick answer. Done. Now, I'm going to give y'all more than that. So, let's say you have kids You've historically been the primary caretaker. So, you're the primary of the parent that has gotten the children up in the morning, gotten to school, pick them up from school, taking them to their activities, doctor's appointments, all the stuff. If you're a parent, you know all the stuff that goes into it. I don't have to tell you. And then you move out, and you leave the kids behind. Keep in mind, until you get a court order in place, either by agreement or hearing in front of a judge, there's no rules in place on custody and parenting time. So, if you move out and leave the kids behind, you may now have difficulty accessing your kids and being that historical primary caretaker. There may be races to the the schoolhouse to see who can pick the kids up first. You want to avoid that. That breeds argument, right? And let's say you move out for a long period of time before you file for divorce. And whereas you formerly were the primary caretaker or maybe an equal caretaker, now because your spouse has been withholding the children or they've been denying you access, you've gone a long period of time without fulfilling that role. You're now at a disadvantage for trying to get custody or trying to get maybe joint physical custody and an equal share of parenting time because you moved out and you left the kids behind. >> That's right. >> So, you want to avoid that. Even if you're not the primary caretaker, even if you are a 50/50 situation or close to 50/50, if you move out and you leave the kids behind and you don't you don't maintain that historical connection with the kids and that historical amount of caretaking, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage for custody and parenting time when that decision is made. >> But I do also want to speak to the situation where there is one party that has always been sort of the workhorse, the worker bee, the breadwinner. They know they work and the other spouse is undoubtedly the stay-at-home parent, mom or dad, um the stay-at-home the the person. Don't feel like you're abandoning your family if you do move out and let them have that space. You know, it's not bad if it's if you know you and your spouse tend to be a little toxic, tend to be a little, you know, hostile in your communications and you are moving out for the sake of your children, don't think that that is abandonment, either. I mean, if you are in a situation, not every parent wants or needs primary custody where they have more parenting time than the other parent. Um every parent's situation is unique and there are plenty of times that you just sort of know going in who's going to be primary and who's not and that's okay. If you are the non-custodial parent and you are fine in that role, your support to them is quality time, not quantity time and you know that holidays, weekends and summers, I'm going to be doing everything with them, but yeah, they're probably going to spend the night at the other parent's house more nights during the week and I'm okay with that cuz I know I have a strong bond with my children. I know my children love me and I know my children know I love them and I can completely accept a role where I get 30% of the quantity time because 100% of my 30 is quality time, then it is okay. You're not abandoning your children. You're not abandoning your spouse if you decide to move out and get that space as long as you're just doing financially what you've always done. >> I'm halfway joking in telling this story, making this comment and I'm halfway not. Christine, I'm still waiting on the case to where neither parent wants the kids, right? Cuz look, kids are a lot. They are all consuming. Right? Right? And so, have you seen the case yet? And I'll tell you what I have seen that's the closest to this, but I haven't seen the case yet where both parties say, "No, she should have custody." "He should have custody." >> >> I could never take the children from you. You're so involved. You're so >> I've never seen that, but what I have seen um, several times, I've had clients that are primary caretakers and they get divorced and they look me straight in the face when I'm like, "Why aren't you asking for primary custody?" Cuz I will tell them, "If you go to court, you have a very good chance at getting primary custody and the majority of the parenting time and they are stuck on a 50/50." And I'm like, "Why?" And they're like, >> "That's what I want. >> I want them to do half the work. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I want a break half the time. I want a free babysitter half the time. >> And if I got to do all this, Yeah. >> they got to do it, too. And I can't argue with that. I'm always like, "Yep, I did my job. I'm glad we we thoroughly discussed this. I completely understand. 50/50 it is. So, keep in mind, don't get lost in the in the weeds because of the forest. Um there is something to say about letting your ex share in those parenting duties and responsibilities. Trust me. Uh that is a luxury. >> you know? >> Yeah, that's a luxury and you know, there are cases where and we're probably getting off topic, but there are certainly cases where another parent doesn't need to have 50/50 or the majority of the time. There's certainly a lot of good reasons for that. But, there's a lot of situations where I think if people were a little more amicable, they would actually appreciate and benefit from having that help. >> Yeah, I mean, everything's going to be a transition. Everything's an adjustment. I know that you can't right now think about it. You can't fathom um cuz this is remember our first consultation, right? So, you can't fathom a situation where you're not tucking, you know, Johnny into bed every single night. Um but I promise you single parenthood will change that perspective real fast. So, sometimes a temporary arrangement, test driving a parenting time schedule is very healthy for everyone involved. >> And the last thing and and this is a question that we get sometimes, so I'll just go ahead and address it real quick. Can my spouse take the kids? I mean, if you're married, you have just as much right to the kids as your spouse does. Um if they are going to take the kids, so in other words, um they're going to alienate you from your kids. Let's say they move out, right? We talked about moving out with kids. That your spouse moved out with the kids and they take off with the kids and they don't allow you to have contact with your kids, parenting time with your kids and they start alienating you from your kids and disparaging you with no good reason to do so, you may get custody. >> Yeah, they'll get They'll get They'll get punished for that. You'll get They'll get punished for that. >> All right, y'all. Hope that was informative. Again, top 10 questions that we get from people that are facing divorce. Uh we appreciate you checking out the episode. Be sure to subscribe on all the major streaming platforms, especially on YouTube. Hit that subscribe button and you'll be the first to be be about all future episodes. And keep in mind we have two office locations. We have one office location in Gwinnett County located in Suwanee. That pretty much serves all of metro Atlanta and then we have recently I say recently Christine it's been 8 months but about 8 months ago we opened up a second office location in Athens, Georgia which is located in Oconee County and that's just a better serve our clients that live in the Walton County areas, Jackson County areas, Oconee County, Clark County and Barrow County. So we are here all throughout metro Atlanta and beyond to help you with your family law dispute. If you need our help, reach out to us. We'd be happy to help you. Thank you.