Welcome back to the Ox and Dine Law podcast. Jared and Christine here. Today we're going to talk about divorce and men. I'll say divorce can impact men differently and often they don't want to talk about it. So, we're going to talk about that a little bit. Today, we're focusing on the male side of divorce. How to rebuild your confidence, reclaim your financial footing, and show up as the best dad possible. And let's just kind of get the red herring out of the room or the elephant out of the room, so to speak. And that is kind of the silent struggle, right? Men are more likely than women to suppress their emotions during the divorce. And I'll be the first one to tell you, and I hate to sound like Donald Trump, and don't read anything to me quoting this, but there are some nasty women out there. There really are. There's some ugly women. Not appearance-wise, okay? Don't don't take that the wrong way. ugly in terms of their behavior and violent women and aggressive women. I can't tell you how many men I've represented where they have been the victim of the marriage in terms of physical abuse. I mean, I've seen some crazy women that are aggressive and they get nasty and they swing and they punch and they push and they get away with it because traditionally men are taught to be strong and nobody's going to believe you if you say that this little woman that's half your size has been beaten up. >> Yeah. And so they suppress it, whereas really they should be standing up for themselves. And I do think that a lot of what we're going to say today is stereotypical and could be deemed as sexist in some ways. But what Jar and I are talking about are actual real life experience. Not everybody in the world, but what we see on a daily basis. And I will say that when you have an ugly divorce, and I'm talking the one where people just straight up don't get along. In my experience, women play nastier, play meaner than the men do. Men usually will have the sort of like anger like they may blow up and have like an anger moment. Women are conniving. Women are manipulative. Women lie. Women will go behind your back and they're more creative in the way that they attack. And so a lot of times men do sort of suffer that. And women tend to get away with it more. And the men are kind of just sitting there like under attack. But what do you do? and you don't want to admit it to your friends and you don't want to admit it to your family, the stuff that you're going through and they internalize a lot more. Men internalize a lot more of the struggle they're going through than women do. Women love to talk about their feelings, love to share the emotions and the men are supposed to be the strong ones. And it is difficult for a lot of men to open up and say, "I am struggling right now. I feel like a victim. I feel like I am under attack. I feel like everything is sort of going her way and I'm stressed about my future. Again, you're supposed to be the strong one for leading the family. And even if your family's going to be broken, you still feel that pressure to lead the family into the next chapter. If you have that sort of classic male mentality of the man being the leader of the family and it's like, how do I lead a broken family? And I think a lot of stress comes with that. >> Yeah, guys. I mean, stand up for yourself. Abuse is abuse. And you know, you have the right to express your emotions and your feelings and stand up for yourself. And I will say, you know, this whole myth about how women have an advantage over custody and they're more likely to get custody in event of a divorce or a situation where custody is in dispute, that is just not the case anymore. I mean, it's just not. That comes from traditional sidal norms that don't exist anymore where the man went out and he had the job and he made the money and the wife stayed at home and was a stay at home mom. That is not the majority of American households anymore. It's very common, especially with today's economy and how expensive everything is. But it's not just now. This has been going on for decades where you have both parties that are working outside of the home. They're both earning income. They're both involved in the caretaking for the children. There is absolutely no presumption in favor of the female when it comes to custody situation. And frankly, I'll say this, been doing this over 20 years. I've got hundreds, literally hundreds of cases where I have gotten custody for the dad over mom. So, you've got to stand up for yourself. If the mom or the mother or wife, whatever, is abusive, stand up for yourself. You have rights, you have remedies you can pursue. And frankly, if you don't pursue those, that's when nobody's going to believe you. I mean, if you're the guy that's getting beat up all the time, you never say anything about then all of a sudden the divorce gets filed and you start to cry wolf and people are going to say, "Well, where's the restraining order that you filed? Did you ever call the police? Did you ever go to the hospital? Did you ever make a report to anybody? And the answer is no. Because you were trying to be a macho man and suppress your emotions and not speak up for yourself. You need to do the opposite. Guys, just know that you're on an equal playing field when it comes to issues in a divorce with a mother and you have rights that are just equal to hers. You just have to stand up for yourself and make sure you take advantage of your rights. How about uh staying active and connected uh with your children after the divorce? >> Sure. I think a lot of men, again, because of these old societal and stereotypical ways, just make an assumption that I'll have my kids less than her. If that's not what you want, talk to your attorney about that. It is super common. I mean, I would say more than half of our cases, 50/50 is sort of where we land or where we even start is a equal sharing of parenting time. So, if you want that, tell your attorney, talk about it, talk strategy, talk about how we can achieve those goals. But also, don't feel like you're less of a parent if you end in a 6040 situation and you're the 40 parent. I give every parent that ever comes before me for a divorce, the same speech. When we're talking about parenting time, please choose quality over quantity. How many times have you sit there and fought over I want 50/50? Okay. Okay. And what's on the table is 5545. And you look at that parent, you say, "What is the difference?" We're I got down recently to 11 nights a year. We were apart 11 nights a year. And ironically, when I said, "Can we split the difference?" It was, "You can't split 11." Okay. Well, we can and even odd years, right? And I asked the client and asked the mediator to ask the other side. I want you, the mediator, to hear both parents answer. Why does it matter? And both of them was it's the principal, how does principal help those kids? So I do think that remembering quantity does not equal quality when it comes to parenting time is important. Men, maximize your quality time with your kids, whatever that may be. >> And embrace what you've got. Uh because keep in mind, parenting time, custody, those are always subject to modification. So, just because you end up with schedule X at the end of your case does not mean you're always going to have schedule X. Especially if mom uh how do I put this nicely is a difficult person, right? I mean, keep in mind as these kids get older, if mom is difficult to live with or she's just mean or she's not happy or she's constantly got new guys in and out of the household, kids are going get tired of that. And if you've got a great outlook and you've embraced your time with your kids, you're exercising your time with your kids, you're making the best of that time, regardless of how much it is, even it's 50/50, maybe you have the majority of time, doesn't matter. Your kids may get to a point and they're going to get old enough under the eyes of the law where they can make an election. I mean, once they get to a certain age, they can choose who they want to have custody. And that is grounds for you to file a case for modification. And the presumption is in your favor. So, embrace what you've got. make the best of what you've got. And if she's truly the person that you say she is, she's going to continue to show her true colors and that's going to backfire on her at the end of the day. And now you are set up for success. I will also say, you know, don't forget, I hate to be this guy that's talking. I feel like I'm in like a counseling pep talk speech here, but you're a stud, man. I mean, seriously, you know, embrace your new independence. I have a lot of guys and they don't feel like they can express this, but I've had a few actually clients that I appreciate that have been honest with me. They're scared. Yeah. >> You know, they're they're afraid of getting out there again >> and they don't know how they're going to do it and they never saw themselves in this situation and they're worried about the future. And I do build them up. I'm like, "Dude, you got the world going for you. You know, you're a good-looking guy. You got a good job. You make good money. You're a good dude. You have kids that love you, right? If you get out there in society and you embrace this new beginning and you have the right attitude, you're going to check the boxes for a lot of other women. >> That's right. >> And you're gonna be like a fly net and you're going to catch a lot of flies. >> Yes. >> And you need to get excited about that. You know, it can be exciting to redefine your identity and embrace the future with a new start. There are things about dating that can be fun. You know, one of the bonuses for getting a divorce is you get to get out there and date again and have new relationships. And news flash, if you found yourself in divorce, something was not going right in your relationship. And this is a chance for you to write that wrong. It's also a chance for your children to see you happy. And how important is that? People stay in these bad toxic marriages and poor household environments. And the reason they say they're doing is, "Well, I'm doing it for the kids. Waiting for the kids to graduate." And all the psychologists and experts would tell you it's much better for your children to get out of that nasty, awful household environment before they graduate and see you happy and see what it's like to see you in a loving relationship in a normal household environment before they get on their own because otherwise they're going to think that's what's normal and that's how they're going to treat their relationships. >> That's right. And I do have to make the comment because I've had so many people tell me, "Oh, our children, we've shielded them. They don't know anything." That's a lie. I'm looking at all of you right now. That's a lie. Your children know something. Children are smart. Children are extremely savvy when it comes to this. Children know. They all know. Okay? So, know right now they all know. >> So, look, man, you're stud. Divorce does not define you. It refineses you. Remember that. Subscribe. Watch us on YouTube, your favorite podcast platform. Don't get upset if we do an episode that's pro- female next. You know, we got to do both sides. We represent both parties. So, we're probably going to have a divorce recovery for women episode as well. But you guys hang in there. We got your back. Take care. See you next time.